Comments on: People need to stop focussing on the events immediately PRIOR to Ian Tomlinson’s death.

By: The UK Water Board » Why Dont You Blog?

The UK Water Board » Why Dont You Blog? — Wed, 10 Jun 2009 21:59:09 +0000

[...] I really admire that person. He or she is really the only cheering element in this disgusting story. However, recent misdemeanors** involving the Metropolitan police suggest that people like that are few and far between on the Met’s payroll. See the cases that were so well discussed on Apathy Sketchpad. [...]

By: Andrew

Andrew — Sun, 17 May 2009 14:28:35 +0000

The incident with the holiday photos being deleted can’t possibly have been legitimate. There’s no law against photographing public transport, and if there was then every film studio in Britain (and this blog) would be in breach of it. If such a law did exist, I’m told it would be illegal for the police to delete the photos because that would be destroying evidence. That was just a couple of cops acting like twats for no reason. If it’s an isolated incident then it’s nothing to worry about. If not…

By: barriejohn

barriejohn — Wed, 06 May 2009 19:23:38 +0000

I wasn`t too sure about that example either Henry! Thanks for the link – I hadn`t come across “The Onion” before, I must confess, but it`s another site that I shall just have to make time to visit in the future, as it`s so witty. I was in stitches over: “First Openly Gay Racehorse To Compete Sunday”!!

By: Henry

Henry — Wed, 06 May 2009 12:24:10 +0000

Maybe I am just a bit too cynical, but I am not sure that your two examples focus entirely on the causitive factor. 2Everyone forgets about Mohammed Abdul Kahar” reminds me of the excellent (if caustic) joke from the Onion a few years back – http://www.theonion.com/content/news_briefs/missing_white_girl_drives
Somehow the media coverage just didn’t really get going for poor Mohammed did it? Of course that could be because the police were so open in their admissions…

By: Jim

Jim — Fri, 24 Apr 2009 13:36:12 +0000

It’s sad and depressing. How is it that a draconian law mandating that video footage cannot be take of police, ever made it through parliament? What on Earth are the back benches even doing these days, where is their usual derision? Are they all out to lunch?

Did you see the article in the Guardian about the tourists who’s photos were erased by the police because they’d taken pictures of the British transportation system? Did we know this was even illegal? I didn’t.

Obviously I appreciate there are two sides to every story, but it’s pretty hard to formulate a well informed opinion when the police’s side of events are a hash of mis-reporting, mis-management, secrecy and deceit.

By: barriejohn

barriejohn — Thu, 23 Apr 2009 21:55:49 +0000

I read a comment somewhere a couple of days ago which inferred that we are all preaching to the converted anyway on these blogs, and that nothing we say is going to change anything in any case. (I can`t remember who actually said it now – you may have seen it yourself Andrew.) I must say it was a rather depressing thought, and that like you I feel that we have to keep making our voices heard, if only to get up the noses of the Stephen Greens and Ray Comforts of this world! (They do read a lot of what is said about them.) Also, there are many waverers, even in fundamentalist organisations, who may well be won over by rational argument (I myself was one of them). What does really worry me though (and YOU may be able to shed more light on this) is the apparent acquiescence of students today. A lot has changed since my day (the “Swinging Sixties”!!) when students seemed much more politically aware. Much of this apparent apathy has been blamed on Thatcher, and undoubtedly the police and civil service became much more politicised during her era. Thankfully, people of my generation have now reached the upper echelons of business, politics, and the media, so even the Daily Mail, when running a two-page spread on that clown Jacob Zuma, made much of his anti-gay rants. A lot of progress has been made since I left College in 1967 (the year that homosexual relations were “decriminalized” in this country), but I must say that I do worry about “the shape of things to come”.

By: Andrew

Andrew — Thu, 23 Apr 2009 09:01:43 +0000

This is all true, but we’re not going to convince the loonies either way. They’re too entrenched in their views, and I think even the dullest MP is aware of the difference between 80% of letters and 80% of voters. But I think it’s important that the left makes its voice heard at a reasonable volume and MPs know that actually we are paying attention to what they’re up to.

I don’t know if that’s the most useful way forward, but it’s the theory I’m going by at the moment.

By: HJ

HJ — Thu, 23 Apr 2009 00:11:20 +0000

Excellent summary Andrew.

By: barriejohn

barriejohn — Wed, 22 Apr 2009 23:01:32 +0000

But I think we SHOULD be worried about what these people think Andrew. You said yourself that the best idea you could come up with was to make our views known to our MPs, but these ignorant right-wingers, with their half-baked ideas, are already doing that! They are the ones who continually write to their MPs and attend their surgeries, write persistently to newspaper and TV letters pages, and organize pressure groups etc. The fact that a lot of their ideas don`t hold water doesn`t come into it; as you have implied yourself, MPs know what side their bread is buttered on, and will play to the gallery to get re-elected – most of them have no conscience. I WOULD put forward the need for better understanding of social issues by the general populace, but for the fact that I hold newspaper editors in even less esteem than MPS today. They are just telling their readers what they want to hear. “Private Eye” is forever documenting the way that they shamelessly change their entire take on a subject when they see that the wind is blowing in a different direction – it`s an absolute disgrace!! This is a big subject really – too big to deal with properly on a blog – and I don`t know how we are going to get the vast majority of society to accept liberal views, or even weigh up the facts objectively, either!!!

By: Andrew

Andrew — Wed, 22 Apr 2009 17:24:28 +0000

Yeah, but those are the same kinds of crazy people who write into the BBC’s Have Your Say section. I don’t think we need worry much about what they think.

By: barriejohn

barriejohn — Wed, 22 Apr 2009 14:46:34 +0000

My brother-in-law (the nicest bloke you would ever wish to meet) was in the police force, so I do know how difficult their job is (as I said), and that most of them are just trying to do their best to make our lives more pleasant and secure. However, as if to prove my point, a letter has just appeared on Teletext from CM of Beverley, stating that the responsibility for the recent troubles lies with “(a)the ones who organise the protest, and (b)those who attend”!! There you have it then – murder victims are to blame for their problems because of their propensity for putting their bodies in the way of sharp implements!!!

By: Andrew

Andrew — Wed, 22 Apr 2009 13:12:54 +0000

To be fair, the police do do a difficult job, and most of them do it well and get unfairly tarred with the same brush as the thugs and bullies. The problem lies not with individual officers but with the institution and the current government.

It’s the same as the difference between Supporting The Troops and endorsing the war.

By: barriejohn

barriejohn — Wed, 22 Apr 2009 13:09:01 +0000

I have known for years now that the police have been obscuring their ID Nos when it suited them, and was always amazed that no one seemed in the least bit bothered about it. The British public are beyond belief really. Even in the light of recent events the papers are full of letters along the lines of “The police do a difficult job” (we all know THAT thankyou!!)… “give them the powers they need to deal with these scum”…”just let them get on with their job”. It makes you despair almost!!!

By: Paul V

Paul V — Wed, 22 Apr 2009 11:40:25 +0000

What’s scary is that I read in the Guardian the other day that the police have basically been doing this sort of thing (hiding ID numbers, pretending that they were attacked first, other general covering up) to peaceful protestors for decades. It’s just that now people are starting to pay proper attention to it.