Comments on: Religious Crackpot Of The Month — September 2007 http://www.apathysketchpad.com/blog/2007/09/13/religious-crackpot-of-the-month-%e2%80%94-september-2007/ Floccinaucinihilipilificating antidisestablishmentarianism since 2001. Thu, 18 Mar 2010 23:51:35 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.4 hourly 1 By: Andrew http://www.apathysketchpad.com/blog/2007/09/13/religious-crackpot-of-the-month-%e2%80%94-september-2007/comment-page-1/#comment-1688 Andrew Fri, 11 Jan 2008 18:12:45 +0000 http://www.apathysketchpad.com/blog/2007/09/13/religious-crackpot-of-the-month-%e2%80%94-september-2007/#comment-1688 You know, <a href="http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml;jsessionid=WWUIREQIOGXJPQFIQMGCFFOAVCBQUIV0?xml=/news/2008/01/11/nschool411.xml" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">for a moment there it looked like the government might be beginning to see sense</a>, but their spokesperson was ready and willing to assure us that they hadn't seen much. You know, for a moment there it looked like the government might be beginning to see sense, but their spokesperson was ready and willing to assure us that they hadn’t seen much.

]]> By: Adam http://www.apathysketchpad.com/blog/2007/09/13/religious-crackpot-of-the-month-%e2%80%94-september-2007/comment-page-1/#comment-1203 Adam Thu, 20 Sep 2007 18:06:35 +0000 http://www.apathysketchpad.com/blog/2007/09/13/religious-crackpot-of-the-month-%e2%80%94-september-2007/#comment-1203 Maybe its time for a Shazanity faith school? Lets make a mockery of the system from the inside Maybe its time for a Shazanity faith school? Lets make a mockery of the system from the inside

]]> By: Andrew http://www.apathysketchpad.com/blog/2007/09/13/religious-crackpot-of-the-month-%e2%80%94-september-2007/comment-page-1/#comment-1202 Andrew Wed, 19 Sep 2007 23:13:24 +0000 http://www.apathysketchpad.com/blog/2007/09/13/religious-crackpot-of-the-month-%e2%80%94-september-2007/#comment-1202 <p>It would appear that the public majority is with me on this one:<br /> http://www.secularism.org.uk/thepublicdontwantmorefaithschool3.html<br /> http://www.learning-together.org.uk/docs/quotesPolls.htm (added to blog)</p> <p>I can't for a second understand what would cause government ministers to want to support bad ideas that the public are against. There's just no defence for any of it. Not one single bit.</p> It would appear that the public majority is with me on this one:
http://www.secularism.org.uk/thepublicdontwantmorefaithschool3.html
http://www.learning-together.org.uk/docs/quotesPolls.htm (added to blog)

I can’t for a second understand what would cause government ministers to want to support bad ideas that the public are against. There’s just no defence for any of it. Not one single bit.

]]> By: M. le Prof d'Anglais http://www.apathysketchpad.com/blog/2007/09/13/religious-crackpot-of-the-month-%e2%80%94-september-2007/comment-page-1/#comment-1199 M. le Prof d'Anglais Sun, 16 Sep 2007 12:15:45 +0000 http://www.apathysketchpad.com/blog/2007/09/13/religious-crackpot-of-the-month-%e2%80%94-september-2007/#comment-1199 The latest on how faith schools fail to promote community cohesion: http://observer.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,,2170337,00.html The latest on how faith schools fail to promote community cohesion:
http://observer.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,,2170337,00.html

]]> By: M. le Prof d'Anglais http://www.apathysketchpad.com/blog/2007/09/13/religious-crackpot-of-the-month-%e2%80%94-september-2007/comment-page-1/#comment-1196 M. le Prof d'Anglais Sat, 15 Sep 2007 10:12:08 +0000 http://www.apathysketchpad.com/blog/2007/09/13/religious-crackpot-of-the-month-%e2%80%94-september-2007/#comment-1196 There's still the question of whether the Government is right to demand "mandatory prayer", and surely comparing and exploring different faiths can be done just as well in a secular school, if not better as all the main religions can then be presented in a neutral environment. Has it never occurred to anyone in Whitehall that faith can be misplaced? There’s still the question of whether the Government is right to demand “mandatory prayer”, and surely comparing and exploring different faiths can be done just as well in a secular school, if not better as all the main religions can then be presented in a neutral environment.

Has it never occurred to anyone in Whitehall that faith can be misplaced?

]]> By: Andrew http://www.apathysketchpad.com/blog/2007/09/13/religious-crackpot-of-the-month-%e2%80%94-september-2007/comment-page-1/#comment-1195 Andrew Fri, 14 Sep 2007 23:54:09 +0000 http://www.apathysketchpad.com/blog/2007/09/13/religious-crackpot-of-the-month-%e2%80%94-september-2007/#comment-1195 <p>Oh, look, <a href="http://www.dfes.gov.uk/communicate/contactus/contact_our_ministers.shtml" rel="nofollow">this page</a> contains <a href="mailto:dcsf.ministers@dcsf.gsi.gov.uk" rel="nofollow">an email address you can complain about the department's policies to</a>.</p> <p>I'll edit that into the main article now.</p> Oh, look, this page contains an email address you can complain about the department’s policies to.

I’ll edit that into the main article now.

]]> By: Andrew http://www.apathysketchpad.com/blog/2007/09/13/religious-crackpot-of-the-month-%e2%80%94-september-2007/comment-page-1/#comment-1193 Andrew Fri, 14 Sep 2007 18:22:55 +0000 http://www.apathysketchpad.com/blog/2007/09/13/religious-crackpot-of-the-month-%e2%80%94-september-2007/#comment-1193 I reckon there's something wrong if there's any discrepancy between what the government wants, what the parents want, and the children's future. I reckon there’s something wrong if there’s any discrepancy between what the government wants, what the parents want, and the children’s future.

]]> By: Ben / S2K http://www.apathysketchpad.com/blog/2007/09/13/religious-crackpot-of-the-month-%e2%80%94-september-2007/comment-page-1/#comment-1192 Ben / S2K Fri, 14 Sep 2007 18:15:52 +0000 http://www.apathysketchpad.com/blog/2007/09/13/religious-crackpot-of-the-month-%e2%80%94-september-2007/#comment-1192 I remember having to pray in Infant School, but I also learnt recently that the Infant/Junior School I went to (Beechwood, in Luton) were aware that my parents were Pagan and would often ask them their thoughts on allowing my sister and I to participate in Religious activities such as that morning prayer and, later, the school nativity plays, which my parents didn't object so so long as neither of us were playing Joseph, Mary or Jesus (in the end I was a narrator and my sister, in the great tradition of removing Christianity from Nativity plays, played a Cuckoo two years later). Paganism actually came up during our RE classes, and my parents were often contacted by the school to ask for advice or information on the subject. My Dad had a book published which the school ended up ordering copies of to keep in the school library. Oh, and one of our teachers was a Pagan. Lovely lady, she was. I forget her name. Beechwood Infant and Junior School became a Charter Mark school in 1994 and, so far as I'm aware, still is. If I were still living in Luton I'd probably have my kids go there (assuming I ever had any). It maintained the perfect balance of what the Government wanted (the manditory prayer), what the parents wanted (involvement in their child's religious and spiritual upbringing) and the children's own spiritual future (providing them with informed knowledge about various faiths and beliefs). I remember having to pray in Infant School, but I also learnt recently that the Infant/Junior School I went to (Beechwood, in Luton) were aware that my parents were Pagan and would often ask them their thoughts on allowing my sister and I to participate in Religious activities such as that morning prayer and, later, the school nativity plays, which my parents didn’t object so so long as neither of us were playing Joseph, Mary or Jesus (in the end I was a narrator and my sister, in the great tradition of removing Christianity from Nativity plays, played a Cuckoo two years later).

Paganism actually came up during our RE classes, and my parents were often contacted by the school to ask for advice or information on the subject. My Dad had a book published which the school ended up ordering copies of to keep in the school library. Oh, and one of our teachers was a Pagan. Lovely lady, she was. I forget her name.

Beechwood Infant and Junior School became a Charter Mark school in 1994 and, so far as I’m aware, still is. If I were still living in Luton I’d probably have my kids go there (assuming I ever had any). It maintained the perfect balance of what the Government wanted (the manditory prayer), what the parents wanted (involvement in their child’s religious and spiritual upbringing) and the children’s own spiritual future (providing them with informed knowledge about various faiths and beliefs).

]]> By: M. le Prof d'Anglais http://www.apathysketchpad.com/blog/2007/09/13/religious-crackpot-of-the-month-%e2%80%94-september-2007/comment-page-1/#comment-1191 M. le Prof d'Anglais Fri, 14 Sep 2007 16:19:33 +0000 http://www.apathysketchpad.com/blog/2007/09/13/religious-crackpot-of-the-month-%e2%80%94-september-2007/#comment-1191 Adonis isn't an MP, and never has been AFAIK. Tony Blair made him a peer in order to make him a minister - ministers have to be members of the Commons or the Lords. In other words, this guy has never had to face the voters. British democracy at work: "I like your ideas! Fancy being in the Government? What's that? Getting elected? No need to worry about that..." Adonis isn’t an MP, and never has been AFAIK. Tony Blair made him a peer in order to make him a minister – ministers have to be members of the Commons or the Lords. In other words, this guy has never had to face the voters.

British democracy at work: “I like your ideas! Fancy being in the Government? What’s that? Getting elected? No need to worry about that…”

]]> By: Paul http://www.apathysketchpad.com/blog/2007/09/13/religious-crackpot-of-the-month-%e2%80%94-september-2007/comment-page-1/#comment-1190 Paul Fri, 14 Sep 2007 15:57:37 +0000 http://www.apathysketchpad.com/blog/2007/09/13/religious-crackpot-of-the-month-%e2%80%94-september-2007/#comment-1190 I saw lots of comments on this and assumed that an argument had broken out. Boo. I saw lots of comments on this and assumed that an argument had broken out. Boo.

]]> By: Andrew http://www.apathysketchpad.com/blog/2007/09/13/religious-crackpot-of-the-month-%e2%80%94-september-2007/comment-page-1/#comment-1189 Andrew Fri, 14 Sep 2007 11:15:23 +0000 http://www.apathysketchpad.com/blog/2007/09/13/religious-crackpot-of-the-month-%e2%80%94-september-2007/#comment-1189 <p>He may not be. I assumed he was because he's listed as running a major government department.</p> <p>I blame this on the fact that I no longer share a house with Mark's Yes Minister box set.</p> <p>Edit:</p> <p>It amuses me that if I call a government minister a crackpot that's fine but if I call a crackpot a government minister someone calls me on it.</p> <blockquote>I don’t think that worship, whoever it may be directed at, is a healthy activity for <em>anybody</em>.</blockquote> <p>I'd never really thought about this but you're quite right, worship is a decidedly dodgy thing for anyone to encourage.</p> <p>Also I fixed your tags.</p> <blockquote>If "faith schools" were called by their true name, they'd be "belief without evidence schools". How long would they last then?</blockquote> <p>It's also a scary phrase if you think of it alongside other similar phrases: law schools teach law; business schools teach business; medical schools teach medicine. Faith schools teach faith. Great idea, guys.</p> He may not be. I assumed he was because he’s listed as running a major government department.

I blame this on the fact that I no longer share a house with Mark’s Yes Minister box set.

Edit:

It amuses me that if I call a government minister a crackpot that’s fine but if I call a crackpot a government minister someone calls me on it.

I don’t think that worship, whoever it may be directed at, is a healthy activity for anybody.

I’d never really thought about this but you’re quite right, worship is a decidedly dodgy thing for anyone to encourage.

Also I fixed your tags.

If “faith schools” were called by their true name, they’d be “belief without evidence schools”. How long would they last then?

It’s also a scary phrase if you think of it alongside other similar phrases: law schools teach law; business schools teach business; medical schools teach medicine. Faith schools teach faith. Great idea, guys.

]]> By: Adam http://www.apathysketchpad.com/blog/2007/09/13/religious-crackpot-of-the-month-%e2%80%94-september-2007/comment-page-1/#comment-1187 Adam Fri, 14 Sep 2007 09:08:14 +0000 http://www.apathysketchpad.com/blog/2007/09/13/religious-crackpot-of-the-month-%e2%80%94-september-2007/#comment-1187 I don't think that Mr Adonis actually is an MP. He certainly wasn't last time i checked. I don’t think that Mr Adonis actually is an MP. He certainly wasn’t last time i checked.

]]> By: M. le Prof d'Anglais http://www.apathysketchpad.com/blog/2007/09/13/religious-crackpot-of-the-month-%e2%80%94-september-2007/comment-page-1/#comment-1186 M. le Prof d'Anglais Fri, 14 Sep 2007 07:11:06 +0000 http://www.apathysketchpad.com/blog/2007/09/13/religious-crackpot-of-the-month-%e2%80%94-september-2007/#comment-1186 Forgot to add: Faith is a belief in something for which you have no evidence. If "faith schools" were called by their true name, they'd be "belief without evidence schools". How long would they last then? Forgot to add: Faith is a belief in something for which you have no evidence. If “faith schools” were called by their true name, they’d be “belief without evidence schools”. How long would they last then?

]]> By: M. le Prof d'Anglais http://www.apathysketchpad.com/blog/2007/09/13/religious-crackpot-of-the-month-%e2%80%94-september-2007/comment-page-1/#comment-1185 M. le Prof d'Anglais Fri, 14 Sep 2007 07:08:40 +0000 http://www.apathysketchpad.com/blog/2007/09/13/religious-crackpot-of-the-month-%e2%80%94-september-2007/#comment-1185 The "collective worship" rule isn't universally observed; when I was at school the head would talk to us about what he'd read in the paper that morning. Nevertheless, it's a law that should have been got rid of a long time ago. It's quite unenforceable, and therefore its application is at the whim of the head, who may or may not be a religious crackpot. Here in France we've had secular schools for over a century, and the general consensus is that it's a good thing. In fact, it's taken so seriously that pupils are not allowed any ostentatious display of religion. This has upset some of the more vocal Muslims, (though I don't see them complaining about Turkey, which bans religious symbols from all government buildings), but no religious group here is seriously demanding special treatment or public funding to help them indoctrinate their kids. The “collective worship” rule isn’t universally observed; when I was at school the head would talk to us about what he’d read in the paper that morning. Nevertheless, it’s a law that should have been got rid of a long time ago. It’s quite unenforceable, and therefore its application is at the whim of the head, who may or may not be a religious crackpot.

Here in France we’ve had secular schools for over a century, and the general consensus is that it’s a good thing. In fact, it’s taken so seriously that pupils are not allowed any ostentatious display of religion. This has upset some of the more vocal Muslims, (though I don’t see them complaining about Turkey, which bans religious symbols from all government buildings), but no religious group here is seriously demanding special treatment or public funding to help them indoctrinate their kids.

]]> By: Mark http://www.apathysketchpad.com/blog/2007/09/13/religious-crackpot-of-the-month-%e2%80%94-september-2007/comment-page-1/#comment-1182 Mark Fri, 14 Sep 2007 00:16:01 +0000 http://www.apathysketchpad.com/blog/2007/09/13/religious-crackpot-of-the-month-%e2%80%94-september-2007/#comment-1182 <p>There was a moment there where I really believed you must have misread something with that "collective worship" business. That is absolute nonsense. Even if there was absolutely no further specification, that's not at all appropriate. I don't think that worship, whoever it may be directed at, is a healthy activity for <em>anybody</em>.</p> There was a moment there where I really believed you must have misread something with that “collective worship” business. That is absolute nonsense. Even if there was absolutely no further specification, that’s not at all appropriate. I don’t think that worship, whoever it may be directed at, is a healthy activity for anybody.

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